Therapists in Birmingham, AL

Photo of Debra M. Hoosier, LICSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Birmingham, AL
Debra M. Hoosier, LICSW
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LICSW, PIP, BC-TMH, CCTP
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35242  (Online Only)
Life is HARD! Many times we get "stuck in the hard." I don't want you to be stuck anywhere! I believe we can journey through the struggle together, empowering you to a stronger, healthier life. I am passionate about empowering clients and assisting them in creating the life that they desire.
Life is HARD! Many times we get "stuck in the hard." I don't want you to be stuck anywhere! I believe we can journey through the struggle together, empowering you to a stronger, healthier life. I am passionate about empowering clients and assisting them in creating the life that they desire.
(205) 850-5473 View (205) 850-5473
Photo of Kristin L Graham, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Kristin L Graham
Counselor, MA, NCC, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35209  (Online Only)
As a therapist, I bring a unique and inclusive perspective to my practice, one that is deeply rooted in my own identity as a queer individual and my commitment to being welcoming to individuals who are on the Gender, Sex and Relationship Diversity (GSRD) spectrum. I am knowledgeable in kink dynamics, queer relationship issues, and consensual nonmonogamy practices. In a world that often misunderstands or stigmatizes individuals on the GSRD spectrum, I am dedicated to providing a safe and non-judgmental environment where clients can explore their desires, express themselves authentically, and seek support for any related challenges.
As a therapist, I bring a unique and inclusive perspective to my practice, one that is deeply rooted in my own identity as a queer individual and my commitment to being welcoming to individuals who are on the Gender, Sex and Relationship Diversity (GSRD) spectrum. I am knowledgeable in kink dynamics, queer relationship issues, and consensual nonmonogamy practices. In a world that often misunderstands or stigmatizes individuals on the GSRD spectrum, I am dedicated to providing a safe and non-judgmental environment where clients can explore their desires, express themselves authentically, and seek support for any related challenges.
(659) 732-2736 View (659) 732-2736
Photo of Liz Childers, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Liz Childers
Counselor, MEd, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35209
I enjoy working with individuals struggling with substance use, trauma, homelessness, adjustment issues, and suicidal ideation. I’ve worked with clients in several stages of life including adolescents and adults who come from a variety of different backgrounds. I currently specialize in working with individuals in the LGBTQ+ community with a focus on gender identity.
I enjoy working with individuals struggling with substance use, trauma, homelessness, adjustment issues, and suicidal ideation. I’ve worked with clients in several stages of life including adolescents and adults who come from a variety of different backgrounds. I currently specialize in working with individuals in the LGBTQ+ community with a focus on gender identity.
(205) 891-5351 View (205) 891-5351
Photo of Mary Elizabeth Akinaka, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Mary Elizabeth Akinaka
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC-S, CEDS-S
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35242  (Online Only)
The world can be a challenging place and sometimes we just need a non-biased ear to listen and aid in navigating the journey. I believe my role as a therapist is to walk along side you in your struggles. I have almost a decade of experience working with individuals from all walks of life who are utilizing maladaptive coping skills as a way to make it through. I am here to help carry the hope for a life where those are no longer needed.
The world can be a challenging place and sometimes we just need a non-biased ear to listen and aid in navigating the journey. I believe my role as a therapist is to walk along side you in your struggles. I have almost a decade of experience working with individuals from all walks of life who are utilizing maladaptive coping skills as a way to make it through. I am here to help carry the hope for a life where those are no longer needed.
(205) 883-9418 View (205) 883-9418
Photo of ACTS Counseling, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
ACTS Counseling
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35213
Relationships can be messy. Times can be confusing. In every life, it gets dark, lonely or just plain TOO overwhelming. You don't have to go at it alone. I have spent many years working with individuals, including adolescents and adults, couples and families. My areas of expertise include marital crises/infidelity, anxiety, depression, trauma, PTSD, grief and loss, negative thinking and low self-esteem. I can help you, and you can feel hope again.
Relationships can be messy. Times can be confusing. In every life, it gets dark, lonely or just plain TOO overwhelming. You don't have to go at it alone. I have spent many years working with individuals, including adolescents and adults, couples and families. My areas of expertise include marital crises/infidelity, anxiety, depression, trauma, PTSD, grief and loss, negative thinking and low self-esteem. I can help you, and you can feel hope again.
(205) 535-1087 View (205) 535-1087
Photo of Katlyn DeGree, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Katlyn DeGree
Counselor, MS, ALC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35205
Congratulations, you have taken your first step towards your healing process. It's ok to ask for help. Do you find it difficult to deal with your emotions, anger, and anxiety? If so, you could be dealing with depression, past traumas, anger management, feeling stuck, conflicts with your spouse/partner/significant other or friends, and difficulties controlling your emotions and/or behaviors. I use various therapeutic approaches that aid my clients with exploring both cognitive distortions, and the conscious and unconscious levels of thinking which will demonstrate healthy behaviors leading to positive outcomes.
Congratulations, you have taken your first step towards your healing process. It's ok to ask for help. Do you find it difficult to deal with your emotions, anger, and anxiety? If so, you could be dealing with depression, past traumas, anger management, feeling stuck, conflicts with your spouse/partner/significant other or friends, and difficulties controlling your emotions and/or behaviors. I use various therapeutic approaches that aid my clients with exploring both cognitive distortions, and the conscious and unconscious levels of thinking which will demonstrate healthy behaviors leading to positive outcomes.
(205) 984-4921 View (205) 984-4921
Photo of Christina Klose, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Christina Klose
Counselor, MA, LCAS-A, ALC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35235  (Online Only)
Feeling lost, hopeless or alone? I will walk with you through your journey of addiction, gambling, depression, anxiety, or through difficult life challenges to find your personal balance, light, and grounding. Reaching out can be challenging and uncomfortable and I applaud you for getting this far. In our work together, we will collaborate in finding hope and healing. With several years of diverse counseling experience my passion is to help you find brighter days ahead.
Feeling lost, hopeless or alone? I will walk with you through your journey of addiction, gambling, depression, anxiety, or through difficult life challenges to find your personal balance, light, and grounding. Reaching out can be challenging and uncomfortable and I applaud you for getting this far. In our work together, we will collaborate in finding hope and healing. With several years of diverse counseling experience my passion is to help you find brighter days ahead.
(205) 964-5518 View (205) 964-5518
Photo of Elizabeth Shahid, Marriage & Family Therapist in Birmingham, AL
Elizabeth Shahid
Marriage & Family Therapist, LMFT
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35255  (Online Only)
You’ve been trying to hold it together and you’re not sure you can do it anymore. Sometimes you feel alone and confused about what to do next. You don’t feel like yourself or the person you want to be. Maybe you're tired and just want to catch a break. You feel frustrated and need something more. You're not alone! At some point in our lives, everyone experiences difficulties they need help with!
You’ve been trying to hold it together and you’re not sure you can do it anymore. Sometimes you feel alone and confused about what to do next. You don’t feel like yourself or the person you want to be. Maybe you're tired and just want to catch a break. You feel frustrated and need something more. You're not alone! At some point in our lives, everyone experiences difficulties they need help with!
(205) 272-6367 View (205) 272-6367
Photo of Patrick Norton, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Patrick Norton
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC, MA, NCC
Verified Verified
4 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35205
Apollo Counseling is here to provide professional mental health and wellness support for individuals, couples, and families. We specialize in working with medical professionals, college students, adolescents, and young professionals in addressing anxiety, depression, burnout, relationship concerns, and other mental health issues. Apollo Counseling can provide the support you need to overcome challenging obstacles, improve your mental health and wellness, raise your self-esteem, navigate difficult relationships, and face the day with confidence.
Apollo Counseling is here to provide professional mental health and wellness support for individuals, couples, and families. We specialize in working with medical professionals, college students, adolescents, and young professionals in addressing anxiety, depression, burnout, relationship concerns, and other mental health issues. Apollo Counseling can provide the support you need to overcome challenging obstacles, improve your mental health and wellness, raise your self-esteem, navigate difficult relationships, and face the day with confidence.
(205) 526-4074 View (205) 526-4074
Photo of Armstrong Therapeutic Services LLC, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Armstrong Therapeutic Services LLC
Licensed Professional Counselor, MS, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35242
Does interpersonal conflict, anxiety and depression make you feel lost? Like you're walking in a fog? This uneasiness can be triggering, anxiety provoking, and it’s common for most people. Unfortunately, many people learn to avoid all conflicts even within themselves. This can lead to self disappointment, which can cause more unmet goals and lead to long-term problems
Does interpersonal conflict, anxiety and depression make you feel lost? Like you're walking in a fog? This uneasiness can be triggering, anxiety provoking, and it’s common for most people. Unfortunately, many people learn to avoid all conflicts even within themselves. This can lead to self disappointment, which can cause more unmet goals and lead to long-term problems
(205) 850-4651 View (205) 850-4651
Photo of Destinee Miskel, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Destinee Miskel
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC, NCC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35226
How did I get here? At first you missed a couple of days of work, then you stopped showering, and now you don’t hang out with people you used to enjoy. Life hits hard whether it’s intrusive memories, the loss of a loved one, or a struggle with your own sense of self-worth. Sometimes it’s hard to even pinpoint why you feel the way you feel, you just can’t seem to move past it. If you’re sick of crawling back under the covers to hide from the world, or making endless excuses to avoid people, contact me.
How did I get here? At first you missed a couple of days of work, then you stopped showering, and now you don’t hang out with people you used to enjoy. Life hits hard whether it’s intrusive memories, the loss of a loved one, or a struggle with your own sense of self-worth. Sometimes it’s hard to even pinpoint why you feel the way you feel, you just can’t seem to move past it. If you’re sick of crawling back under the covers to hide from the world, or making endless excuses to avoid people, contact me.
(205) 654-7186 View (205) 654-7186
Photo of Wise Center for DBT, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Birmingham, AL
Wise Center for DBT
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LICSW, PIP
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35223
Many clients I see come in after suffering significantly from riding the highs and lows of intense emotional ups and downs and are in search of learning new coping skills, or strengthening existing ones. Some of these folks suffer from self-harming behaviors, suicidality, addiction, eating disorders, OCD, PTSD, or anxiety and depression. The common thread among them, however, is the desire to not only more skillfully regulate their emotions, but to ultimately build a life that they want to live, not just one that they simply are trying to endure.
Many clients I see come in after suffering significantly from riding the highs and lows of intense emotional ups and downs and are in search of learning new coping skills, or strengthening existing ones. Some of these folks suffer from self-harming behaviors, suicidality, addiction, eating disorders, OCD, PTSD, or anxiety and depression. The common thread among them, however, is the desire to not only more skillfully regulate their emotions, but to ultimately build a life that they want to live, not just one that they simply are trying to endure.
(205) 747-0758 View (205) 747-0758
Photo of Rebecca Welsh, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Rebecca Welsh
Licensed Professional Counselor, MEd, LPC, NCC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35223
It has been said that: "God uses our deepest pain as a launchpad for our highest calling". However, a lot of the times we become immobilized by the pains we have endured. My goal in counseling is to remind believers and non-believers that there is hope past the pain, shame, and doubt they are experiencing; through modalities of individual, couples, family and pre-marital counseling.Do not let shame and doubt rule over you any longer but instead gain insight and authenticity as you understand your Creator, your process and yourself more fully.
It has been said that: "God uses our deepest pain as a launchpad for our highest calling". However, a lot of the times we become immobilized by the pains we have endured. My goal in counseling is to remind believers and non-believers that there is hope past the pain, shame, and doubt they are experiencing; through modalities of individual, couples, family and pre-marital counseling.Do not let shame and doubt rule over you any longer but instead gain insight and authenticity as you understand your Creator, your process and yourself more fully.
(205) 858-9520 View (205) 858-9520
Photo of Empower Counseling & Coaching, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Empower Counseling & Coaching
Counselor, MA, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35223
***Covid_19 Telehealth appointments available. Secure private HIPPA compliant video or phone counseling. Must live in Alabama. EASY, secure, safe. Accepting new clients. If you are stuck, overwhelmed, or struggling with where your life is headed, I can help. If you are unfulfilled and unsatisfied with your relationships, I can help. Anxiety and depression are treatable. I will listen with compassion and without judgment as you share what is happening in your life.
***Covid_19 Telehealth appointments available. Secure private HIPPA compliant video or phone counseling. Must live in Alabama. EASY, secure, safe. Accepting new clients. If you are stuck, overwhelmed, or struggling with where your life is headed, I can help. If you are unfulfilled and unsatisfied with your relationships, I can help. Anxiety and depression are treatable. I will listen with compassion and without judgment as you share what is happening in your life.
(205) 526-3674 View (205) 526-3674
Photo of Shannon Treadwell, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Shannon Treadwell
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35209  (Online Only)
Life has a way of taking us on a journey where we experience amazing highs as well as challenges that seem to stop us in our tracks. My goal is to come alongside you as we navigate the difficulties and celebrate your wins. In our work together, we will reflect on your past and present, identify your strengths as well as explore new strategies to overcome barriers and achieve higher levels of emotional and mental wellness starting from within.
Life has a way of taking us on a journey where we experience amazing highs as well as challenges that seem to stop us in our tracks. My goal is to come alongside you as we navigate the difficulties and celebrate your wins. In our work together, we will reflect on your past and present, identify your strengths as well as explore new strategies to overcome barriers and achieve higher levels of emotional and mental wellness starting from within.
(256) 242-5250 View (256) 242-5250
Photo of Lee Knight, Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Lee Knight
Counselor, MEd, ALC
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35205
Hi! My name is Lee Knight, and I am an Associate Licensed Counselor at Alabama Counseling & Consulting Services, LLC. I have experience working with a wide range of individuals and families with diverse presenting problems, including, but not limited to: anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders, autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, obsessive-compulsive and related disorders, trauma- and stressor-related disorders, gender dysphoria, eating disorders, disruptive, impulse-control, and conduct disorders, substance-related disorders, and personality disorders.
Hi! My name is Lee Knight, and I am an Associate Licensed Counselor at Alabama Counseling & Consulting Services, LLC. I have experience working with a wide range of individuals and families with diverse presenting problems, including, but not limited to: anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders, autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, obsessive-compulsive and related disorders, trauma- and stressor-related disorders, gender dysphoria, eating disorders, disruptive, impulse-control, and conduct disorders, substance-related disorders, and personality disorders.
(205) 619-9849 View (205) 619-9849
Photo of Jennifer Maddox, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Jennifer Maddox
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Birmingham, AL 35209  (Online Only)
My ideal client seeks self-exploration & understanding, facing issues like anxiety, depression, or relationship difficulties. They need a supportive space for personal growth, aiming to gain insight, develop coping strategies, improve communication, & foster healthy relationships. They aspire to enhance mental well-being, achieve a better life quality, & unlock their full potential.
My ideal client seeks self-exploration & understanding, facing issues like anxiety, depression, or relationship difficulties. They need a supportive space for personal growth, aiming to gain insight, develop coping strategies, improve communication, & foster healthy relationships. They aspire to enhance mental well-being, achieve a better life quality, & unlock their full potential.
(205) 898-5269 View (205) 898-5269
Photo of Dylann Lowery, Marriage & Family Therapist Associate in Birmingham, AL
Dylann Lowery
Marriage & Family Therapist Associate, MS, MFT-A, MFTI
Verified Verified
4 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35209  (Online Only)
You and your partner are staring at a long, bumpy road ahead of you. Once, you were excited to go on this journey together. Now, part of you is terrified of what's to come. You want to make things work, but you're tired and weary of having the same fight over and over. You can't seem to agree on anything. Are we ready for marriage or have similar goals? What's the best way to raise our kids? Enter stress from outside the relationship- pressure from opinionated in-laws, ever-increasing demands from work, kids acting out at school. Just when you need your partner's support the most, you feel like your teammate has left you stranded.
You and your partner are staring at a long, bumpy road ahead of you. Once, you were excited to go on this journey together. Now, part of you is terrified of what's to come. You want to make things work, but you're tired and weary of having the same fight over and over. You can't seem to agree on anything. Are we ready for marriage or have similar goals? What's the best way to raise our kids? Enter stress from outside the relationship- pressure from opinionated in-laws, ever-increasing demands from work, kids acting out at school. Just when you need your partner's support the most, you feel like your teammate has left you stranded.
(334) 402-2765 View (334) 402-2765
Photo of Rhonna W Phillips Counseling & Therapy Srvcs, LLC, Licensed Professional Counselor in Birmingham, AL
Rhonna W Phillips Counseling & Therapy Srvcs, LLC
Licensed Professional Counselor, MA, LPC-S, LMFT, Collab, Mediati
Verified Verified
2 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35226
I have 35+ yrs experience. Clients know deep down what they need. My job is to help the person explore their thoughts and feelings & find their own direction for happier or healthier living. I respect a client's self direction & his/her readiness for change. I will explore, guide, probe, even challenge in a kind, gentle and respectful way. I am trained to provide Collaborative Practice/Mediated conflict resolutions; out of court, preserving the dignity of the individuals & relationships. Clients tell me I have a keen sense of understanding their perspectives, they feel respected, & I am greatly helpful to them.
I have 35+ yrs experience. Clients know deep down what they need. My job is to help the person explore their thoughts and feelings & find their own direction for happier or healthier living. I respect a client's self direction & his/her readiness for change. I will explore, guide, probe, even challenge in a kind, gentle and respectful way. I am trained to provide Collaborative Practice/Mediated conflict resolutions; out of court, preserving the dignity of the individuals & relationships. Clients tell me I have a keen sense of understanding their perspectives, they feel respected, & I am greatly helpful to them.
(205) 210-9996 View (205) 210-9996
Photo of Rachel Copeland, Clinical Social Work/Therapist in Birmingham, AL
Rachel Copeland
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, PhD, LICSW
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Birmingham, AL 35223
We all face difficult experiences that can seem unmanageable. You may be struggling with anxiety or depression or with old or new trauma. Perhaps your closest relationships have become a source of stress instead of a source of comfort. Maybe you are experiencing grief and loss. Going through these experiences results in a decline in your general well-being and happiness. My approach offers an in-depth understanding of your struggles to make long lasting changes in your life and relationships.
We all face difficult experiences that can seem unmanageable. You may be struggling with anxiety or depression or with old or new trauma. Perhaps your closest relationships have become a source of stress instead of a source of comfort. Maybe you are experiencing grief and loss. Going through these experiences results in a decline in your general well-being and happiness. My approach offers an in-depth understanding of your struggles to make long lasting changes in your life and relationships.
(205) 286-3377 View (205) 286-3377

How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in Birmingham, AL

600+

Average cost per session

$136

Therapists in Birmingham, AL who prioritize treating:

92% Anxiety
88% Depression
78% Self Esteem
76% Coping Skills
75% Relationship Issues
71% Stress
67% Trauma and PTSD

Average years in practice

9 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

87% BlueCross and BlueShield
49% New Directions | Lucet
45% Cigna and Evernorth

How Therapists in Birmingham, AL see their clients

75% In Person and Online
25% Online Only

Gender breakdown

82% Female
17% Male
1% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in Birmingham?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.